4) Gene reflects on Phineas’ impact on his life at the bottom of page 202 and top of page 203. In this passage, what do you think Gene means when he says “Phineas alone had escaped this” (202)? What did he escape? And did he do so by dying or by the way he lived his life? (see also page 204) Coughlan
Finny changed the way Gene looks at the war, but he also changed his outlook on life. Finny sees
the world in a very different way than Gene, which Gene adapted over time.
Finny could go into his own world and believe it was real. When Gene says “Phineas alone had
escaped this”, it’s true, that only Finny had really escaped the war. He never would have to go to
war himself. He would never grow up to accept reality. Finny also escaped the war while he was
still alive, by choosing not to believe in it. Once he finally accepts it, it’s still distant and irrelevant
to his life. Even though none of the other boys had been to war yet, that hadn’t already escaped it
as Finny had. They were always preparing for the war and talking about it. The other boys knew it
was coming, but Finny never thought it would affect him. When Gene says “Nothing as he was
growing up at home, nothing at Devcon, nothing even about the war had broken his harmonious
and natural unity.”, it shows how Finny was in a bubble and the war would never have really
affected him.
the world in a very different way than Gene, which Gene adapted over time.
Finny could go into his own world and believe it was real. When Gene says “Phineas alone had
escaped this”, it’s true, that only Finny had really escaped the war. He never would have to go to
war himself. He would never grow up to accept reality. Finny also escaped the war while he was
still alive, by choosing not to believe in it. Once he finally accepts it, it’s still distant and irrelevant
to his life. Even though none of the other boys had been to war yet, that hadn’t already escaped it
as Finny had. They were always preparing for the war and talking about it. The other boys knew it
was coming, but Finny never thought it would affect him. When Gene says “Nothing as he was
growing up at home, nothing at Devcon, nothing even about the war had broken his harmonious
and natural unity.”, it shows how Finny was in a bubble and the war would never have really
affected him.
Finny didn’t just escape the war, he escaped adulthood and maturity. In his bubble, he had no experience
with the real world and it had only been an idea. If Finny had really grown up, he may have eventually
come to accept reality, but he never will. It seems suitable that Finny stays young forever and that is part
of the reason John Knowles had him die. He is too innocent for the world and would not survive anyway.
with the real world and it had only been an idea. If Finny had really grown up, he may have eventually
come to accept reality, but he never will. It seems suitable that Finny stays young forever and that is part
of the reason John Knowles had him die. He is too innocent for the world and would not survive anyway.
- Would go to war have made Finny understand the real world? Why or why not?
- Explain the symbolism in Finny dying so young. What is John Knowles saying about the war?
- What does Gene mean when he says “My fury was gone, I felt it gone,
- dried up at the source withered and lifeless. Phineas had absorbed it and taken it with him, and
- I was rid of it forever”? How does this relate to Finny “escaping”?
When Gene says that his fury is gone, he is saying that he has already fought his war. It was not the real-world war, but an internal war against Finny. "I was on active duty all my time at school" (204), Gene reflects, and says that he killed his enemy there: Finny. He has no righteous anger left to direct towards the real-world war, because during his time with Finny he put it all into that internal war. Much like Finny needed Gene to become him, Gene needed Finny to rid himself of his guilt and, eventually, the fury and bitterness that would rise out of their codependent relationship. Finny absorbs all of Gene's fury and when he dies, he takes it with him. However, by dying so young and innocent, he escapes having to actually feel any of that himself.
ReplyDeleteWould go to war have made Finny understand the real world? Why or why not?
ReplyDeleteI believe that if Finny had gone along with Gene, then it wouldn’t make Finny actually understand that it was really happening, but rather, make it harder to deny. Gene goes alone to visite Leper, and what he see’s changes his perspective on the war. He realizes that it was really happening, and it was really damaging, contradicting what Finny had been telling him the whole time. It should also be pointed out that Gene wasn’t fully convinced by Finny that the war was fake, which does play a factor in him changing his mind. But still, imagining if Finny had gone, and being able to first hand see Leper going crazy, unlike the image he puts on during their “court” than Finny would finally realize he couldn’t just be blocking it off anymore. This is backed up even more by the fact that before his death, Finny finally excepts the fact that Gene pushed him off the tree. This raises a question though, which is if he had actually accepted the war, this might’ve resulted in him accepting Gene pushing him sooner. If he did this, there’s a possibility he would’ve have died. Because in the symbolic sense, the reason he died was that he hadn’t fully accepted anything. But if Finny had been forced to accept it, maybe he’s young death could have been (symbolically) prevented.
Do you think if Finny had accepted the truth about Gene, he would’ve lived?
Was the war more of a turning point for Gene, or for Finny?
Do you think if Finny had accepted the truth about Gene, he would’ve lived?
DeleteWas the war more of a turning point for Gene, or for Finny?
Personally, I think Finny had it coming for him anyways. Regardless of how Finny acted, their codependent relationship could not have ended well anyways. Though quite morbid, one of them had to go in order for the other one to attempt to mature in a more normal way. If Finny had somehow accepted the truth about Gene, I think they both could have just stopped being friends and matured more normally. I think the war was a major turning point for both Finny and Gene. It forced both boys to grow up and grow out of the bubble they were both living in. Without the war, Finny probably would not have died as Gene would have never been forced to tell the truth. I think Knowles included the war as a major turning point in both the boys' lives because it exaggerates the hardships of becoming an adult.
Do you think their relationship would have been this codependent if there was no war?
Without the war, Finny and Gene's friendship wouldn't have been as codependent as it was. It also would not be as codependent if Finny had never gotten injured. Finny not being able to go to the war because of his leg, and not being able to be an athlete, made Finny feel unneeded and lack a sense of purpose. Instead of facing his new future, and finding something new to be passionate about, Finny turned to Gene to live out his dreams. This was a lot to be asked, but Gene had to accept his new role since he felt guilty about his involvement in Finny's injury. This led to Finny pulling Gene into a fantasy where there was no war that Finny couldn't be apart of. Since Finny didn't accept and move on from his injury, Gene was the only thing keeping him sane. Gene was losing his own sense of self for Finny, meaning he would be lost without Finny. This made for a dangerous codependent relationship.
DeleteFinny going to war wouldn't have made him understand the real world because he is just too innocent. He probably wouldn't have survived it either way because life in the real world is way more complicated than his life in his Devon bubble. He never really grew up and if he went to war it would just break his heart how hard life is. He probably would've ended worse than Leper. At the same time if he had gone to war he would've definitely realized that his leg was never going to get better so maybe the war would've helped him that way but he was a character that was never meant to mature.
ReplyDeleteWhat would Gene say in a eulogy about Finny? (question is from Mr. Rossiter email)
ReplyDeleteI think that if Gene had a eulogy about Finny first of all it would be very emotional. Even though when Gene found out that Finny died he didn't react very much I think that he was partially in shock and didn't accept the fact that Finny was gone. But if there was a eulogy and Gene had to speak on Finny I think this would be different because Gene would have had time to accept the fact that Finny was gone and I think speaking on the subject would have been hard. As for the content I think that Gene would defiantly mention how him and Finny were best friends and how they were roommates and how they did everything together. He would also mention what a terrific athlete Finny was and how talented he was. As for what caused Finny to fall of the tree I don't think Gene could bring himself to tell everybody that he caused it. I think that would stay a secret with the boys at Devon. Lastly I don't think that Finny would want Gene to tell the crowd how we fell of the tree and I believe this mainly because Finny was a good person and only believed people were good.
I don’t think that going to war would make much of a difference in Finny’s mind. He would be fighting and he would be aware of it, but he would push it away. I doubt he would enlist on his own, and would probably only go off to war if he was drafted. The same goes for Gene, except Finny would be the one controlling his actions. If they went off to war and were still so codependent on each other, that could cause them both to be severely hurt. They would never understand reality and would be stuck in their own little world where even with war going on around them, they would somehow not have to experience it. It seems that Gene is maturing much more now that Finny’s is gone, but he still doesn’t understand reality fully. It’s implied that Gene is becoming Finny, in the locker room and even at the end when Gene wondered, “if he ever attacked at all; if he was indeed the enemy.” There’s obviously still some doubt, and Finny would have made sure that doubt stayed, meaning they both would never mature. In the locker room when Gene is gathering his belongings, he leaves the locker party open--abandoned. Finny loved sports and lost all of that when he injured his leg. I think that this scene might show how Gene still can’t get rid of the fact that he’s keeping a part of Finny with him--a part that he can’t abandon.
ReplyDeleteDo you think their relationship would have been this codependent if there was no war?
ReplyDeleteIf there was no war, Finny and Gene's relationship would be much less codependent. Since Gene could not handle his guilt on the fact that he injured Finny and ruined his sports carer, it made him have to become Finny. Finny's special was sports, and without them he felt that he needed someone to succeed for him. As a result of this, Finny sucked Gene into his fantasy.Throughout the novel, Finny is always telling Gene about his fantasy and pretending like there is no war. Gene's guilt was defeating him, and he felt obligated to succeed for Finny as it was the least he could do. Since Finny wrapped Gene up in his fantasy world, it created a very codependent relationship as Finny depended on Gene to succeed in sports for him, and Gene felt like he needed to do this because of his guilt after the tree accident.
The symbolism in Finny dying young relates to the quote, “better to quit while you're ahead than to see yourself fall behind.” Finny never saw himself fail at Devon. He was always the winner in his world and he was never able to see somebody beat him. John Knowles uses the war as a way of helping Finny and Gene move on and grow. Finny's way of growing is dying by never seeing himself fall. By having Finny die so young, it might be used to show how many other young boys with dreams like Finny lost their lives in the war. He connects the war to Finny's death to shine light on the lives lost during the war.
ReplyDeleteAfter finally telling Finny the truth of what happened in the tree that day, Gene was finally done escaping and had let Finny know the truth. Finny's forgiveness towards the subject had finally set Gene free of his guilt. Even though what really happened in that tree still remains a secret to most of the people at Devon, Gene had given the truth to the only person who deserved it, Finny. After telling Finny what happened at the hospital, Gene was finally ready to move on from Devon and graduate.
ReplyDeleteI think that, if Finny had gone to war, he would have been affected in a similar way to Leper. Both Finny and Leper chose to not accept the war, granted in different ways, but both still do not see the truth of the war. Leper went crazy when he could no longer maintain a disconnected attitude, and Finny also tried to evade connecting himself to the war. Finny did not see himself as part of that world even before he fell out of the tree, but this attitude turned into a coping mechanism when he no longer had the option to take part. Gene mentions twice mentioning how he does not think Finny would make a good soldier, once in the hospital room and again in the last chapter of the novel when he expresses that Finny was purely different from the rest of the world not only in his attitude toward fighting but his overall perspective of other people. Without Finny alive to push the narrative of a story separate from the war, Gene seems to give up. On page 202, Gene talks about how he could not even talk about Finny. He is unable to understand his emotions, pushing them away much like earlier in the novel when both Gene and Finny cannot accept what happened in the tree. This is why Gene needs to revisit Devon as seen at the beginning of the book.
ReplyDelete